Spanish translation #161
Comments
|
Taking a look at how the translation works, and regarding how git works, I think it's better to wait until the French translation is finally revised and merged. Do you agree? I subscribed to notifications in that PR to keep in touch. |
|
Thanks for offering!
On the whole, yes. (In principle, "merging" the two translated versions would be a matter of copying several columns in a spreadsheet and rebasing, but it's unnecessary additional work and it increases the scope for errors. Unless you have a strong preference for doing the translation now (for whatever reason), it would indeed be better to wait.) An improved translation system is on the radar (#143), but not yet designed or implemented... |
|
I will wait, yes, no problem. =) |
|
I will start with this in the following days, as the French translation is already merged. =D |
|
I have a question: where are the strings as "Location", "Capital", etc. translated? I cannot find them in |
|
Another question: what do you use for editing I was using LibreOffice, but when I save the csv I can only choose to put between quotes all strings or none, while the original file uses quotes only when the string has spaces. |
They aren't currently. (This is "on the radar", but not yet implemented.) The strings are only present in the templates (e.g. Capital -> Country) so, in the meantime they could, in principle, be translated by the end-user in their own decks. (Yes, I know that that's horrible and abominably ineffective...)
The quotation convention is caused by the fact that The workaround currently used here, is to edit If you're strongly opposed to doing this, for whatever reason, then in principle somebody could do it for you before the final merge. (In the meantime, though, you might get scary, if ultimately harmless, failed checks for your pull-requests.) |
OK. No problem, then. Future work. =)
Ah, sorry. I promise I read all guidelines before proposing to do the Spanish translation (=P), but I didn't understand that and just skipped it. Now I fully understood it and I've just set up php and composer. I did some tests and everything works as expected. Thanks for your help! Also, to keep you informed, I will have translated approximately a third of the deck by the end of the day. It's been a ton of work these weeks and I didn't have time until yesterday. Also, translating is more work than I thought, I'm finding lots of issues in |
|
Sorry about being out for a long time. I was finishing my PhD Thesis and it was extremely exhausting. Good news: I have finished writing it and decided to give me a free week before getting the defence ready, so I think I will finish the translation this week (or, maybe, at the beginning of next week). By the way, will you attend FOSDEM? I will be there this weekend. =) |
|
Thanks for the update. Good luck with your thesis defence! I won't be at FOSDEM, but it looks awesome. |
|
I have a doubt. In Spanish, both "Sint Maarten" and "Saint Martin" are "San Martín". Seeing the hint, one could tell if it's a part of the Netherlands or France, but now, after fixing #164, there is no hint in certain cards. Should I add the country at the end of the name of the territory as "San Martín (Francia)" and "San Martín (Países Bajos)"? I'm going to finish the translation today and I want to know your opinion before submitting the pull request. By the way, the same problem happens in French translation. |
|
OK, so I submitted the pull request. I have found several issues (too many for opening an issue for each of them) while doing the translation. If you agree, I will post them here and so we can discuss after merging the PR. |
I think that that's the best solution, especially since that's what Spanish Wikipedia does. Obviously @axelboc might override that.
Hooray!
Ooops, we didn't catch that. Thanks for pointing it out! Fortunately, it's the only such issue in the French translation. There's also one "copy-pasto" in the Norwegian version (Argentina/Chile).
(You can check with:
for i in `seq 2 5`; do
csvtool cols "$i" src/data.csv | head -n 1
csvtool cols "$i" src/data.csv | sort | uniq -c | grep -v 1
done) (I'll fix these, though they probably should be only merged after the Spanish translation, to minimise merge conflicts.)
Please do! |
I put that following your emoji reaction and submitted the PR. =P
Thank you!
OK, so get ready for a long reply. The following is copied from the document I did while translating. I think we should discuss this after merging the PR, anyway. While doing the Spanish translation, I found the following issues. Some of them are very straightforward to fix, but others are more difficult.
My suggestion for fixing them is as follows:
Keep in mind that there are a lot of things that can be outdated, as I started writing this when I started the translation and Wikipedia has changed since. In fact, I think there was a big change in all infoboxes because they mostly list all capitals now in English Wikipedia. I think all countries with more than a capital (usually put in capital info) should be revised and all the capitals put in "Capital" field. I wrote down all cases I saw from a point on, but not from the beginning (when I started looking at this, South Africa had three capitals in Spanish Wikipedia infobox and one capital in English Wikipedia infobox, but now they both have three). A final reflection: I think the deck should follow what English Wikipedia says, even though it can oppose other Wikipedia pages. If one finds a disagreement, it should be resolved in all wikis or, at least, the most international one, the English version, as I will try to do with the multiple capital countries. I think the translations should be only translations and the content should be consistent, in my opinion. =) |
|
Thanks for bringing all these up!
Proportionately long reply incoming! :p
Most of these are due to there being several alternative, equivalent names for certain geographic areas in Norwegian and German.
This one is because in the German version of the deck, the capital of the British Indian Ocean Territory is also London, so a capital hint is needed to distinguish it from England and the UK.
AFAICT: Shouldn't end in a period (single word, short phrase or list):
Should end in a period (often a complete sentence):
(It is often the case that the Country and Capital infos also aren't actually full, grammatical sentences, but for consistency I think it's best if they all end in a full stop.)
I think in the English, for three countries we consistently use "X, Y and Z", but for two countries we do seem to vacillate between "X, Y" (for the Faroe Islands, Iceland and Norway) and "X and Y" (for Indonesia, Monaco and Poland). I'm not sure which form is better. Regarding translations, it seems that the German mostly follows the English in terms of using "and" rather than a comma, the Norwegian occasionally does, and the French just uses commas everywhere. Since there might be conventions for how to present lists in different languages, I'm not certain whether it's worth trying to introduce full consistency.
I think that since both Norway's and Iceland's flags have the same white intermediate element it's not necessary to point out that the cross is blue and white.
You're right, the Ivory Coast flag is 2:3, while the Irish one is 1:2. This is, IMO a "minor difference" ("slightly different geometry (e.g. width)"), so it should be mentioned.
It's also the title of the relevant Wikipedia article. Given that the topic of the naming of Luxembourg City had been discussed several times already), the last time in 2017, I don't think it's worth trying to change it on Wikipedia.
You're right! The difference in CIELAB ΔE*, of the two reds, using @axelboc's spreadsheet, is 30.02. Hence, again according to the flag similarity guidelines, the difference is not "negligible" (30.02 ≥ 30 :p), and so should be mentioned. I think that the difference in shade of red between the Polish and Indonesian flags should also be mentioned.
The ΔEs:
It might be worth bringing up on the Wikipedia page. The last discussion that I could find was from February 2007, when the current constitution was only in draft form (it was officially passed in October 2007), though I would definitely argue in favour of adding Cetiña to the Spanish "Capital info" as the "Antigua Capital Real" (since it's in the infobox). Adding Cetinje to the English "Capital info" as the "Old Royal Capital" might also be a good idea. (According to Encyclopaedia Britannica:
)
Technically yes, though it feels a bit silly. (Denmark is in a very similar situation.)
See 4.
I agree (see 7.).
I don't think it's incorrect in English, but it's redundant and could be changed.
From what I recall when I looked into this at the time, no official French bodies, nor the French media use or acknowledge the name Cabo Verde, so it shouldn't be in the French translation.
Ugh. The infobox in English Wikipedia also says "Pretoria (executive), Bloemfontein (judicial), Cape Town (legislative)" (as do the German, French and Norwegian ones), so the same solution should be used for all of them. (Encyclopaedia Britannica also gives the three cities as capitals...) The two possible approaches are:
I don't have any strong opinion on whether the current approach should be kept or not. This should probably go in its own issue...
(See 14.)
(See 14.)
I think that this is a case where one wiki uses the "state" flag and the other the "civil" flag. (See also #111.) Since having separate media for different languages would be messy, I agree that in this case (flag images) one should follow English Wikipedia, but I don't necessarily agree that one should follow it for all fields, for all languages.
This seems to be contradicting our otherwise de-facto policy of listing the first city from the infobox, though the situation is slightly different, since it appears that the two capitals have the same status...
(See 14.)
(See 14.)
(See 14.)
According to Wikipedia it's "sometimes" referred to as Guinea-Conakry, so this could be mentioned in the "Country info", but IMO it's not essential.
(14.)
This was probably because subdivisions of France generally don't officially have their own flags, but it seems that the French Guianese General Council adopted one in 2010. OTOH, according to the dedicated article on the flag the body that had adopted the flag was disbanded in 2015...
In this case, the official capital was destroyed (as described in the "Capital info") and the capital under construction is still under construction, so keeping the de facto capital Brades for the time being should be OK. Little Bay could be mentioned in the "Capital info".
Aruba's hint can't be "Not a sovereign country" because that would fail to distinguish it from Sint Eustatius, which is also "Not a sovereign country". In general, though, we prefer maximally-generic hints, which is why England's hint isn't "Constituent country".
True.
I agree! :) (The main counter-argument would be that the EU isn't a country, but if we can have capitals for subdivisions, then there's no reason not to have one for the EU.)
Makes sense.
That's a known issue, though it's a consequence of following each language's Wikipedia article, and I'm not 100 % sure that it's really an issue.
I don't think that they're actually officially recognised. (23. is related.) OTOH that doesn't necessarily mean that these flags couldn't be added.
Perhaps.
Yeah, I think that we have a convention, but if there are inconsistencies, these should be ironed out.
Perhaps.
Not sure. Could open an issue for discussion.
Definitely!
Not sure. (Change unlikely to be accepted on Wikipedia.)
Definitely yes!
I think I agree, but good luck pushing it through...
Yeah.
Not sure (see 4.).
Definitely!
I agree.
I think so too.
I think these should all be discussed together, in an issue.
Yeah.
Probably.
I'm not entirely convinced.
I think these two should go in their own issue, for further discussion.
In this case the discrepancy is deliberate, so no.
I think so.
Yes! :)
Yes!
I'm not sure.
I think this is a very interesting question of to what extent the different language versions should be simple translations and to what extent independent decks. My personal stance is that in case of doubt we should sway towards consistency, but not enforce it absolutely. (This might lead to unnecessary complexity, though.) Thanks again! Edit: On returning to this later, I apologise if any of the above came out sounding harsh. These were obviously purely my opinions and I don't want to torpedo any of your ideas! |
|
Also, since I forgot earlier, good luck with your thesis defence, if you haven't had it already! |
Not at all! I understand it's a long reply and it's tiring to write it the long and kind way, hehe. I had the same sensation when writing my initial comment. =) I didn't answer to your comment because I haven't been able to do it until now. I have very few free time. =(
Thank you very much! It's on mid April. =)
OK, I'll take a look at all the info and I will be able to fix some issues around next week, probably. Thank you both! ^^ |
|
First of all, @josealberto4444, thanks a lot for all these notes, and thanks @aplaice for your review! 🏆 If an item is not listed below, it's because I agree with @aplaice's reply. I've opened issues when a change is definitely required or when further discussions are needed. Feel free to open some more, of course. 😉 3. Commas in flag similarities => issue #203 Here are my thoughts regarding the capital of the EU:
I feel like we keep trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Maybe the current model of using the Country - Capital and Capital - Country templates for subdivisions, along with capital hints, has reach its limit and we should brainstorm an alternative? I don't know, maybe we could add a new template, or decide that if a subdivision's capital conflicts with a sovereign country's capital, we simply don't add it. After all, this is what we do with flags (e.g. we don't have a flag for French Guiana because it's the French flag). Anyway, just a thought for now. If you don't think I'm going crazy, we can discuss further this in a separate issue. |
|
Closing this issue now, since its main purpose was achieved! 💯 Feel free to keep commenting here, or to open new issues as appropriate. Also, feel free to take on any of the issues I've just opened, as I won't have time myself. Thanks again! |
I think I could manage to do the Spanish translation of this deck. Is that OK? =)
The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: